Alec Purves
There are several examples in the Books, although never outright stated, about the issue of LGBQT and Gor; is that of Appanius and Milo written around 1988 – Magicians of Gor –
“Appanius and Milo must be on intimate terms,” I said.
“Yes,” she said. “The master treats him almost as though he might be a free man. They discuss matters of business and the theater. Even in the great hall, at the common suppers, he has Milo above the salt and at his right hand.” Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 310
“If Milo had requested a girl, do you think he would have received one?”
“I would suppose so,” she said, puzzled.
“Perhaps he did not request one,” I said.
“Master?” she asked.
“Possibly Milo does not find women attractive,” I said.
“Master?” she asked.
“Nothing,” I said. Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 312
“At any rate,” I said, “it seems they have been seeing one another.”
“It cannot be!” he said.
“Your slave, it seems, has been carrying on a shameless affair with her.”
“That cannot be,” he said.
“I have seen him,” I said. “He is a big, handsome fellow. Why could it not be?”
“He would not betray me!” he said. Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 418
“My Milo, my Milo!” wept Appanius, looking down at the much-beaten slave. “The most beautiful slave in Ar! My beloved slave!
“My beloved Milo!”
“He has betrayed you,” said one of the retainers.
“How could you do it?” asked Appanius. “Have I not been good to you? Have I not been kind? Have you wanted for anything?
“Have I not given you everything!” Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 426
“So, Milo,” said Appanius, “you would make of me a laughing stock?”
“No, Master,” said the slave.
“One can well imagine him laughing about how he betrayed you with a woman,” said one of the retainers. Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 427
I think we can agree (maybe) that homosexuality is mentioned in the Books, that it is Goreans mentioned in the Books. Are they a readily accepted part of Gorean society = no. In today’s society are gay rights readily accepted = no. Does that give us an excuse to not support gay rights or accept them as equals = no.
The issue comes to a head when certain people say that it is impossible to be gay and Gorean. You also cannot support or be an ally to gay rights and be Gorean. In today’s society – I have a difficult time accepting the notion that certain people will use a fictional Book to justify their personal ideals or philosophy for not accepting others outside their comfort zone. It is a personal bias; to some a prejudice; one that is veiled in the notion that we must always follow the Books to the letter – (unless we find passages that disagree with our ideals; then throw in the argument about the ‘natural order’).
I am still puzzled how some people can take a stance against gays being Gorean based on a fictitious Book series. The quotes mentioned so far relate to attitudes on the planet Gor. If some want to grasp on to that veiled attempt to say it is acceptable here (real life) because it is mentioned in the Books; then more power to them. I have already stated My position on this.
Take a look briefly at the quote about the relationship between Appanius and Milo –
“Appanius and Milo must be on intimate terms,” I said.
“Yes,” she said. “The master treats him almost as though he might be a free man. They discuss matters of business and the theater. Even in the great hall, at the common suppers, he has Milo above the salt and at his right hand.” Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 310
You will note that they are positive homosexual demonstrations, not heterosexual demonstrations.
This does NOT look like a relationship that is in a negative light, actually the opposite is shown here. They were very visible and active in their local Gorean community. This homosexual relationship is a contributing part of Gorean society; financially, socially, in daily meetings and gatherings with other Goreans.
Later on it seems that Milos could be bisexual. He was in relationships with both men and women. It never says he turned against his relationship with Appanius, only that he cheated and had a relationship with a woman and was caught.
“If Milo had requested a girl, do you think he would have received one?”
“I would suppose so,” she said, puzzled.
“Perhaps he did not request one,” I said.
“Master?” she asked.
“Possibly Milo does not find women attractive,” I said.
“Master?” she asked.
“Nothing,” I said. Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 312
In the passage above – it was shown that a slave could be in a relationship with both a man and a woman. The conversation between this Master and His slave was very open and matter of fact. There is no sense of moral decay or questions of the natural order. Just normal day to day relationships and discussion.
“At any rate,” I said, “it seems they have been seeing one another.”
“It cannot be!” he said.
“Your slave, it seems, has been carrying on a shameless affair with her.”
“That cannot be,” he said.
“I have seen him,” I said. “He is a big, handsome fellow. Why could it not be?”
“He would not betray me!” he said. Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 418
“My Milo, my Milo!” wept Appanius, looking down at the much-beaten slave. “The most beautiful slave in Ar! My beloved slave!
“My beloved Milo!”
“He has betrayed you,” said one of the retainers.
“How could you do it?” asked Appanius. “Have I not been good to you? Have I not been kind? Have you wanted for anything?
“Have I not given you everything!” Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 426
Even the retainers suggest that the relationship between Appanius and Milo was acceptable and normal. Their comments focus only on the betrayal of a slave to his Master. Nothing more.
Now look at the other quote that is used to suggest that homosexuality is wrong (supposedly) –
It may be mentioned that, interestingly, since the Waniyanpi repudiate nature, and natural relationships, that there is in the compounds, an unusual incidence of homosexuality, both of the male and female varieties. — John Norman, Blood Brothers of Gor DAW page 156
Does there look to be a conflict here = absolutely.
You have two different outlooks on homosexuality mentioned in two different Books – Magicians of Gor and Blood Brothers of Gor.
Take in to account the social and economic affluence of both stories. In the story of Appanius and Milo; they seem well off financially and affluent in Gorean society. In the other example, the Waniyanpi were in compounds – probably living in poverty and not well off or accepted.
Would all Goreans have the same thoughts and acceptance of all other Goreans. Highly unlikely. Each individual comes to their own conclusions on matters important to them. It is no different today as it was in this fictional story.
As I have mentioned before, in today’s society how is it possible that some can make a statement saying that only straight people can be Gorean? Over the entire Book series, there are literally thousands of quotes and hundreds of passages on many different subjects.
To use only one quote, and base the rise or fall of Gorean philosophy on it is something that I cannot accept.
Again, I do NOT believe that who a person sleeps with defines the personal morals, their values or principles. The Gorean philosophy is based on these three- it should not hinge on sexuality, but by their words, conduct and thought.
To argue the notion that to be Gorean ONLY is for straight heterosexual people is something that amuses and disappoints Me. I have proved it exists. Now, show Me where it states you cannot be gay and Gorean.
Overall, it was a great discussion, with some viewpoints made by many that have studied and made up their minds on what they believe to be true and accurate. Coming from different backgrounds, ideals, cultures and even religious will at times taint our thinking and understanding on what we are reading and trying to discover.
Goreans can be very opinionated, but this was a discussion that had two totally opposite viewpoints, and for the most part it remained civil and respectful. For that – I commend everyone who participated in this topic.
I would encourage everyone to read through the topic again. Thoughts and positions are laid out very clearly and arguments are made passionately from both sides.
Only you can decide for yourself what position you will take on this issue.
- Can a person be gay, lesbian, bisexual and still follow the values, morals and principles of Gorean philosophy?
or
- Only straight people can be Gorean?
Very simple really.
Examine your own morals, values and principles. What position will you make on this subject? As My grandmother use to say “The proof is in the pudding”. Look at the proof, and see if there is enough proof that homosexuality itself is unGorean.
In today’s society, can anyone stand and say that it is acceptable and morally upright to deny the existence of homosexuality, and that based on some fictitious books written about a fictitious place; gays cannot follow the principles, morals and values of the Gorean philosophy, nor can they be Gorean? You decide.
In Leather
Alec Purves
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